Re: Garak/Ziyal
I am always seeing posts and hearing people say how Andy Robinson didn’t like this pairing, and I know the general opinion (which I do NOT share) among DS9 fans is that Garak did not have romantic feelings for Ziyal. I have scoured the internet to try and find the source of these claims, as far as Andy Robinson goes, and this is the only mention I can find from an online interview:
“Q: Did you enjoy working on the episode in which you fell in love with Tora Ziyal?
AR: I enjoyed the episode very much. I wished that they could have made
up their minds as to what actor would play Ziyal — it was a relationship
I would have loved to pursue.”
Sounds like he was into it to me.
I remember reading something about the kiss being awkward but I believe he said that was due to the prosthetics getting caught or something.
I too thought I once saw something about him not liking it, but I’m not sure where it was from. It could have been when he was answering questions on a reddit board… I remember a question about Ziyal there but I can’t recall specifics.
Oh, @ladyvean I found this
[–]JustPlainSimpleGarak 109 points 1 year ago
Hello Mr. Robinson,
First off, thank you for the enjoyment I have found from watching your portrayal of Garak, my favorite character in all of Star Trek and very possibly all of television. Also to a lesser extent thanks for inspiring my reddit username!
Now for a question: Is there any side of Garak that we never got to see during the run of DS9 or in ASIT that you wished you got a chance to show? Or perhaps is there any story or plotline for Garak that was never explored that you wish you had been able to do?
[–]AndrewJRobinsonElim Garak on DS9[S] 160 points 1 year ago
Probably the love story the writers wanted to tell when they introduced Ziyal. It was like the this romance was doomed by the oddest circumstances - it just never got off the ground. Garak had a real poet’s soul and I would have liked to have gone there with him. Thanks for asking.
I just found another thing from Andy saying that he was disappointed that the issue of Ziyal wasn’t confronted when Garak and Kira began to work with Damar during the rebellion. Hmm. Ira Steven Behr had some things to say on their relationship too. Garak/Ziyal was canon.
No, but by all means, everyone keep insisting how uncomfortable Andy was with the relationship and how he didn’t want to do it.
Look, I get it’s not a popular pairing, and you don’t have to like it. You can pretend it didn’t happen - make up fun headcanons, whatever. But don’t project shit onto the actors that isn’t there.
@guljerry & @ladyvean thanks for clearing that up!
I guess I´m one of the few who actually found something enjoyable in the awkwardness. Not just because I relate too much to Ziyal´s fondness of Garak It somehow felt really fitting for their unique situation on DS9 that the romantic relationship was present but doomed or “stuck”. Garak having to deal with affection he does not return or does not want to return has imho even more potential to be interesting than a fully developed romantic relationship ^^
That Ziyal´s character never had more chance to develop in the show is a shame though, for various reasons.
Always glad to have a rational discussion about this pairing! :D
I think not wanting to return it, for a lot of reasons, is more likely than him not actually feeling it outright. When the Federation retakes DS9 in season 6, we are shown all the officers reuniting with the people they cared for most - and who does Garak immediately seek out? Ziyal, of course. I suspect he was dealing with a lot of conflicting emotions internally. Garak has a tendency to punish himself, and I am betting there was a sense that he felt he somehow did not deserve Ziyal’s affections.
Still, I would have loved to have seen more of Ziyal’s development as a character, independent of her other relationships (Garak, Kira, Dukat, etc). It’s just such a pity that Melanie Smith couldn’t tolerate the make-up.
I´m assuming rationality is rather rare round this topic ? ^^
You´re probably right about Garak´s emotions, I still haven´t quite decided what kind of version I´d actually prefer, all the possibilities have something interesting eg. that the reuniting and the person you care for most doesn´t necessarily have to be a romantic connection .. but of course reading the scene it certainly points to your interpretation
It is! I would have loved to see more of her too, Ziyal was such a unique personality in such a unique situation, they could have really done a lot with her character. Despite her biography she had so much compassion and trust, in some way I admired that.
I also really liked that she brought a perspective to the screen of someone who was of course affected by the war but (or course with limits) not always directly involved. It would certainly have been interesting to see if, how much and in which direction her character had changed and she had adapted to her situation once she got more involved.
Something she made me think of quite often is how awfully and horrible “mixed” children have been treated after eg WWII in earth history, I still remember how much this horrified me when I first read about it, I do understand the dynamics but in some way it still baffles me how people can do this, and given that I guess seeing how Ziyal struggled to connect and fit in had even more impact on me ^^
All excellent points. Of course, a relationship’s priority is not directly associated with romantic involvement (just look at the other connections in that scene - there were families and friends of all types being reunited). I just think that in the case of Garak and his feelings towards Ziyal there were underlying romantic feelings that he did not want to acknowledge because of historic behavioral patterns with him, ie. feelings of lack of worth, self-preservation through secrecy, etc.
As for Ziyal herself, yes, yes, yes. Star Trek in general, and DS9 in particular, has always had the ability to address social issues in a very broad way while still making it very obvious and poignant and I’m sorry that they missed the opportunity with Ziyal. We saw some of how mixed species children were treated by both Bajorans and Cardassians in the early episode “Cardassians,” but it would have been nice to have seen Ziyal’s experiences with that as an adult, going from Cardassian society to Bajoran society and finally the space station, which was probably where she would be most at ease, as it was a conglomerate of all kinds of people. It’s especially interesting considering her background, being hidden (presumably, based on things Dukat said when he was searching for her with Kira) as a child, then being forced into servitude for the Breen. It’s a really horrifying backstory, and yet we have this very earnest character. I would have loved to have seen more of her.
@ladyvean (sry for the late reply)
Oh yes, the issues with self worth are certainly an interesting and important thing to consider in this context, hasn´t he even said pretty straight forward that he can´t imagine that she would like him or what she would like (voiced with a bit of a different connotation but probably really hitting a big truth)
Oh yes, it would have been great to see this in relation to a character whom the audience actually got to know,
Her backstory with the Breen is something I don´t often think about because it´s kind of hard to grasp for me what her life must have been really like there, especially how much information she got about the outside (obviously she got told about cardassian customs but that´s all still quite different from experiencing it) it would have been so interesting to see how, getting to know life in those quite different places afterwards made her think about her first years (maybe there would have even been some point of exhaustion with the struggle to fit in that she a teeny tiny bit values the place and structure she had with the others, it must be quite difficult to wish to get out of this and to long for a different life and then not really properly, fully arrive there .. or maybe that´s just completely off and she would still be the amazing person she is and find value in being able to get to experience so many new places, she might not find *the* home but she finds some pieces of home everywhere .. )
And yeah I agree the space station would probably have been a place where she really could have thrived ^^
Andy didn’t hate Garak/Ziyal.
