my even hotter take is that Kai Winn isn’t even really an especially bad person and her vs. kira is one brand of zealot vs. another, and it’s to kira’s (the character’s) detriment that this is not explored in more depth
kira’s interesting because she is not the kind of character we associate with star trek. she’s a religious fundamentalist. she didn’t want science taught in schools. she supported the establishment of an “untouchable” caste even when it got innocent people murdered in less than a week. the fandom is super weird about stripping out what makes her an interesting addition to the canon.
like if we’d had a moment where Sisko was ranting or enraged by the fact that he was conceived by rape (thanks unnecessary bad plotline detail!!) do you think Kira would have actually objected to what the wormhole aliens did or do you think she would have been like “it was the will of the prophets” ? like where’s that scene, that could have gotten drag-out dirty. because really think about what she says and does even if you’re not comfortable with it. be honest. that’s the point of compelling characters!!
I agree with this take on the whole! I think Kira also is a particularly interesting character because she is willing to add some flexibility to her religious beliefs in a way that Kai Winn is not willing to do. The most overarching example is that Kira accepts Sisko (who isn’t Bajoran) as the Emissary, whereas Kai Winn refuses to believe this could be so.
Flowing from this Kira eventually (often grudgingly) accepts many of the things she initially categorizes as “wrong” (like teaching science that doesn’t agree with her religious beliefs) in part because she believes Sisko is the Emissary. Her religious zealotry is tempered, and her worldview expanded, by her friendship with him, and with the other Starfleet officers.
And I think a scene such as you described would be fascinating.
My other take is that many people miss a large portion of why Kai Winn takes up with the Pah Wraiths, as they don’t understand religious fervor - bc without that aspect her turn to the Pah Wraiths is entirely about pride, when instead I think it involves a large portion of grief and pain as well.
Winn has all her life been serving the Prophets, and being persecuted because of that. Yet they have never spoken to her - instead they speak to Sisko, and to Kira - neither of whom have suffered as Winn has. Her feelings of abandonment by the Prophets, and her doubt in their existence/goodness because of this are in my opinion, important components of why she turns on them - and they interlock with her pride - which still is the other reason she turns. Winn desperately wants to be in communion with the Prophets, but they seem to refuse her. In her mind, either they don’t exist, or they must hate her. And so in (prideful) anger, rebellion, grief at being abandoned by the gods she has been trying to serve, and desperation she turns to their mirror image, the Pah Wraiths.
the prophets also spoke to Quark
All of this.
And let’s not forget the healthy dose of misogyny, internalized or otherwise, that fuels a lot of the fervent hatred for Kai Winn.
The misogyny is a great point, and reminds me of the discussion surrounding Dolores Umbridge. She’s widely regarded as the most hated character in the series, even more than Voldemort, but imagine if she were “genderflipped”? Imagine if Kai Winn were? Would you, and the masses at large, still have the same gut reaction towards someone with their dispositions if it was through a vaguely attractive white (coded) dude? *cough* Snape&Dukat *cough*
Plus, I think a lot of people forget that Kai Winn, while largely represented as an antagonist, was shown as someone actively against the occupation, which is a huge part of Kira’s character.
So, she’s a three-dimensional, complex character, but our limited view of her on the show gives fans a flat caricature to mock. Some fans are all too happy to give Dukat credit for “not straight-up killing his daughter” and such, but any good traits Kai Winn are given are immediately ignored. Excuses, while a bad thing, are never made for her.
more important points imo
Also worth noting to me is that Kai Winn actually does a last minute heel-face turn, whereas Dukat chooses evil up until his last breath.
