tbh what the DS9 says about forgiveness and redemption between garak, damar, and dukat is totally incoherent
i am 100% behind dukat not getting redeemed because a three-for-three denies necessary contrast in the narrative, but whatever the fuck was being said there was said so poorly i just cannot distill the fucking takeaway we were expected to get from that
like even the scene where dukat (who is now being written as Full Satan Fire Ass) forgives damar for killing ziyal. like… okay… is the show implying that matters? to either dukat or damar? if it doesn’t matter to either then… ??
someone’s gonna be like “yes well dukat CHOSE not to be redeemed” but, there’s like a huge gulf between how bashir interacts with done-unforgiveable-deeds Garak and how sisko interacts with done-unforgiveable-deeds Dukat, and the show wants you to celebrate both of these things simultaneously?
it’s also weird that the show keeps justifying to itself that dukat doesn’t even get the chance to fail–he doesn’t deserve that and isn’t owed it–but then just, helps hide from the audience and/or minimize what garak has done. to like, retroactively imply it wasn’t as bad and that’s why unconditional redemption was o.k. Because it was secretly conditional as fuck and bashir just didn’t know he was on the right side of it (?????)
imho they should have had the same degree of opportunity and garak should have succeeded (and damar), and dukat -failed-. but instead it ends up feeling weirdly calvinist. and like, calvinism? in my star trek? nO THNAKS
This post has two good text replies on it, I intend to get to both but one at a time (especially my take on this one is a little more straightforward). This is the one from nerdfishgirl
Read her input and my response under the cut. With proper grammar, too:
I love it when @kaelio and @nerdfishgirl discuss these things because they cover all the bases and I don’t have to bother.
I think there’s a big tendency in fandom to “woobify” Garak and make allowances for his incredibly disturbing and often psychotic behavior and presumed past actions because he was a victim of abuse - which unnerves me for various reasons…
As for the writers of DS9 and their treatment of Garak vs Dukat in terms of redemption and change, I would argue that Garak really doesn’t change that much. Just look at the way he relishes shooting Rusot and his final scene with Julian where he mentions living in for revenge. Seems to me that he was just means to end for telling certain narratives.
