Ill Met By Moonlight

[Ill Met By Moonlight]

[colemckenzies]

what's your 'thing' as a friend. i don't mean like 'oh im the mom friend' i mean like what's the Thing where if one of your friends was looking for a specific interaction they'd message you first. personally i can always be relied upon to get hyped about bugs, literature, and cursed internet images.

[Ill Met By Moonlight]

Design 101

Any dildo - unless it is dual ended - should have a base that allows it to be freestanding.

Jesus Christ, why is that so hard?

[Ill Met By Moonlight]

I know I posted this before, but I can’t find it.

[Ill Met By Moonlight]

myriadhallauglokadis asked:

Is it just the way he's wired (...), a preference like any other, or do you think there's more complex psychology going on? And about Julian, for that matter: He's an augment; I'd ask people who see him as the sub to Garak's dom, whether they've *seen* Riccardo Montalban in TOS? Sure, Julian was designed with other goals in mind. Still, not unheard of. To me, the moment Julian "grew up" in Garak's eyes, might well be when he shot him in Our Man Bashir... any thoughts you might want to share? 3/3

ladyvean answered:

To be quite honest, Julian is not my favorite character.  I find him to be rather bland, and I don’t think Sid is a great actor.  Fortunately, his performances were always elevated by bouncing off of Andy - they did have a good rapport.  I know I mention Julian’s genetic enhancement in my fics, but that mostly because Garak mentions it a few times in canon and it makes me wonder how he feels about it.  Jealous?  Curious?  Hmm.  Personally, I tend to forget about Julian’s genetic engineering because it was such a weak plot point and poor story telling. 

Is Julian the perfect Dom to Garak’s sub?  Certainly not initially. But I think Garak saw an opportunity and tailored the situation, if you’ll pardon the pun.  I don’t think anyone could possibly argue that Garak was anything but impressed and turned on when Julian shot him, that’s for damn sure.  But I do think it probably took them quite a long time to work up to any kind of BDSM dynamic and if anything, in their early sexual experiences, Garak was probably the one doing the topping because it was “expected” by both of them.

[myriadhallauglokadis]

Between your “tailoring the situation” and my casual mention of “wire”, I think we’re even regarding puns and allusions :D

Tbh I sometimes don’t quite know what to do with Julian either. I don’t think I’d have a particular fannish interest in him if it weren’t for Garak. To me, doing something about the genetic engineering is a little bit of a challenge *because* it was so badly done in the series. It shows just how stumped the writers were about him, once they’d killed the possibility of garashir happening in canon… and don’t get me started on the Ezri thing. That was just…. bad, and another case in point.

I do like Julian as a dom to Garak’s sub, though, because he knows Garak as well as anyone is likely to know him, and he might understand the ice he’d be walking on. (I mentioned that on the other “thread”). And he cares, a lot.

I like the idea of them starting out with Garak topping, although I probably won’t write it that way myself… but I’ll just have to wait and see whether they’re going to cooperate..

Now. I really gotta go, or else I won’t survive rehearsal tomorrow… goodnight! (or probably afternoon for you)

[ladyvean]

“I don’t think I’d have a particular fannish interest in him if it weren’t for Garak.“  I think you hit the nail on the head for me right there.  Julian was a problem for the writers right from the beginning and I don’t think he ever quite panned out as a character.  Total agreement about the Ezri thing.  Not to mention the cringy habit of wanting to sleep with his patients.

I think that during the Wire, Julian got a good look at Garak and how fractured he is - and how dangerous he can be.  And I think, as you mentioned, that allowing him to be present for Tain’s confession about the nature of their relationship was very telling, but even so - I still don’t think Julian has the full story on Elim Garak and I don’t think he (or anyone else) ever will.  But regardless, Julian does care.  It’s a big part of what makes him an ideal match for Garak, in the terms we’re discussing.

But you go to bed!  No tired rehearsals!

[katbelleinthedark]

A big part of the appeal, as you mentioned in ask 2, is the ability to be vulnerable with Julian. Being able to trust that another is not going to hurt/betray you is a rare commodity on Cardassia imo, and that’s what makes Julian so fascinating to Garak. Because he cares deeply, but also because such a betrayal is not in his nature and is further against his principles. Julian just Wouldn’t. It must be quite freeing for Garak, to be able to put himself in another’s hands and under his control out of his own free will. I think the element of “I chose this” plays a big role here.

Lol, I’ll never understand how people can not see that Julian would do well as a dom. Like, TOS!Khan aside, Julian has shown in-show that he can lie and manipulate as well as Garak (this is one of the things I love most about the genetic enhancements arc, and boy do I love it), and that he can be ruthless. He is strong and can be very domineering, and all the things that make people afraid of Augments are THERE in him, bubbling under the surface.

[ladyvean]

I think we see more of that side of Julian in the later seasons of DS9 for sure, as he kind of matures and comes into his own - as much as he was able to with the way the writers portrayed him.  That being said, I am DYING to play around with him being a Daddy Dom for Garak.  As I stated previously, I went with pet play because I feel that Garak needs to make a psychological distinction between his inner selves in terms of his sexuality, and another way to address that would be with age play, which could also be really interesting, considering his background.  However, I expect fandom would self-destruct if I ever did such a thing.

But yeah, I can totally see Garak having a daddy kink and Julian being a loving, gentle Daddy Dom.  Again, we cycle back to the praise kink and Garak’s urge to please people.

[myriadhallauglokadis]

@katbelleinthedark you touch on a number of points that I’m seeing regarding Julian (although I’m not the biggest fan of the enhancement arc, but this is something it’s useful for…). There are instances where he kind of becomes visible as a potential dom in the show – the most famous one perhaps taking place in the holosuite, but I also think his experiences as a whole show him as a strong character over time, including that whole section 31 business (which I personally love, but that’s my personal opinion). It’s poignant that in the very first scene of them together, Garak famously puts his hand on Julian’s shoulder, whereas in their last scene, it is the other way around. Different situation, of course, but it does say something about the way their relationship evolved throughout the show.

@ladyvean I would 10/10 read that if you ever write it. I see your point clearly, and it is sound. It’s more due to the fact that I personally find daddy kink off-putting (as a rule) that I wouldn’t really want to write it. If you don’t mind my saying so, if I were you and really wanted to write it, I would write it regardless of what fandom would think. Fandom™ seems to be rather sensitive these days, when even the mere idea of a role reversal between Cardassia and Bajor as an AU results in name-calling. I sometimes miss the unabashed darkfic that used to be around a decade and a half ago… it sure is stressful to read, but I personally grow tired of everything feeling so *safe* all the time.

Neither here nor there, I suppose. But please don’t let fandom get in the way of your writing!

What I have been contemplating is how Garak would regard pain, as an element in (sexual) play. And I think it could go either way – I’ve considered if he might really have acquired a taste for it, and that’s an interesting thought that I haven’t quite been able to shake off. Even though it’s a little creepy, given what he’s been doing for a living in the past. But then, I *like* that it shows how dangerous he really is, in a very direct way. I think it can show something about him that many people don’t want to see, i.e., that he might not have been 100% appalled at the reality of that part of his job. I can see him wanting the tables turned on him – Cardassians are obsessed with atonement, really.

P.S.: @ladyvean, I’ve seen that screencast set from In the Pale Moonlight that is currently making its rounds, and you’re definitely right about the body language going on in there.

[ladyvean]

Man, I am on the fence about Garak enjoying pain or not sexually, though I’m leaning towards not.  At least, not majorly.  Maybe a little impact play, some spanking, some choking.  Pinches and flicks to sensitive areas.  But nothing extreme - bloodplay, electricity…  Then again, I can’t deny that he seemed to like getting shot.  He’s so complex it’s hard to say.  Did he like getting shot because it hurt?  Or did he like getting shot because Julian so effectively put him in his place?  Or was it a little of both?  Hmm. 

Personally, I really think that the major thing for Garak is the psychological aspect of being submissive, pleasing his Dom/Domme (Helllllo, Palandine), reveling in both praise and humiliation, relinquishing control.  Though I’m sure he would need a bit of gentle correction from time to time, and there’s nothing like a good slap for that, which I’m sure Julian can deliver.

He probably enjoyed the pain aspect of submission more before the deactivation of the wire, and then had to relearn his sexual reactions once it had been removed.  Like, “Oooh, that used to feel good, but now it hurts!”  He had to literally be rewired.

As a Cardassian though, I have no doubt that biting just goes hand in hand with sex.  I think that’s standard for them, so nothing special there in terms of him being a submissive/enjoying pain.

And of course, not ALL submissives are masochistic.  It’s such a broad spectrum.

Regarding his job, I do not believe for even one second that Garak did not enjoy what he did for the Order.  Even Tain says it - “I never met anyone else who relished a good interrogation as much as you did.”  Garak was not only good at what he did, he loved it.  I don’t think that translated to the bedroom, however.  No, on the contrary, it’s probably one of the reasons he needs to let go sometimes. 

Oh, and not to worry.  If I really want to write something, I will.  I’m just a terribly slow writer.  I’m just a little sick of getting fussed at for my lack of purity.  LOL.  There is a darkfic coming, but it’s about a different Cardassian… ;)

[myriadhallauglokadis]

Tbh, I’m on that fence as well… but I enjoy engaging the idea and seeing how it goes, and I wanted to put the thought out there. There are some aspects that I believe are credible about it. Intuitively, though, it feels slightly off for me as well.

(And I hope I haven’t implied that subs are masochistic as a rule, because… just, no). It doesn’t have to be whips and chains, because there’s so much one can do with much subtler methods. The psychology of saying certain words, or permitting certain touches, for instance: I like the thought of Garak being turned on by breaking societal taboos on submission, and of Julian making him admit to that – kudos for that one, btw. Or the thought of Julian touching Garak innocently, but due to cultural differences, it’s not that innocent to Garak at all, but incredibly assertive. Garak would let Julian see how he’s affected by Julian’s touch. I think this could be how Julian finds out about what exactly Garak likes.

I like your thoughts about the aftermath of having the wire removed. That’s some valuable insight, and I haven’t thought of that before in those terms. You’re absolutely right, Garak would have to relearn what kind of pain feels good and what doesn’t. Especially since he can’t really take all that much (hence the wire in the first place).

Extrapolating from the way Cardassians flirt, I also think that scratches and bites are common… and Palandine is so Domme it’s not even funny :)

What do you think, do Cardassians really do ‘vanilla’ at all? Or have they got their hierarchical behaviour patterns so ingrained that they’re ubiquitous? Hierarchy is something reptiles do when there’s a shortage of resources (or so I’ve researched), and from that vantage point it would make sense…

[ladyvean]

“I like the thought of Garak being turned on by breaking societal taboos on submission, and of Julian making him admit to that.”  YES.  Yes, that is key with Garak.  And as for Julian touching him in a seemingly innocent way, but it being much more than that and Garak letting him know so with his eyes… Well, I touched on that in Soothing the Stray, but God, there is SO much potential there.

I think Cardassians must do vanilla, but their vanilla is different than human vanilla.  We seem to agree that biting and scratching is par for the course with them.  But I also think that they are not sexually repressed as a species, and probably use sex for various reasons.  I mean, with their devotion to family, obviously sex priority number one is going to be get a mate and have children.  But it is also a very hierarchical society, so I’m sure there’s also a lot of sex within the military and other command organizations, which is going to reinforce the existing power structures, and as such, that kind of sex is probably going to be a lot more aggressive. 

It also seems to me that as long as you have a mate and a family, it doesn’t matter what other sex you are having - as long as you don’t produce any unwanted, illegitimate offspring.  Hence the orphan problem, maybe?  “Shit, we gotta get rid of this kid.  Let’s dump it.”  I don’t know.  You would think if that was the case that they would have developed better forms of contraception (I’m looking at you, Dukat), but perhaps the strong emphasis on family has made contraception such a taboo that it is frowned upon even in extramarital sex?  This is just me spit-balling now.  I would have to give it more thought.

But getting back to your question, I would think that vanilla sex for Cardassians would involve a lot of grinding, since it’s a commonly accepted thought that they have reptilian ancestry and hence cloacae.  So, Cardassian vanilla sex = biting, scratching, grinding, and gator-rolling.  LOL